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Weekends With Alex Witt

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TOPIC FREQUENCY

Boston 46, Fbi 29, Russia 16, Dzhokhar 13, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev 10, U.s. 10, United States 9, Tamerlan 8, Dagestan 8, London 7, The Home Depot 6, Phillips 5, Pete Williams 4, Garth 4, Pete 4, Peter Alexander 4, Campbell 4, Al Qaeda 4, Oklahoma City 4, Chechnya 4,
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  MSNBC    Weekends With Alex Witt    News  News/Business. New.  

    April 21, 2013
    9:00 - 11:00am PDT  

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the boston bombing charges could be coming any time, but when will officials begin to start questioning the suspect in custody? meanwhile, new reaction in the past few hours from the country where the older brother traveled. did he meet with terrorists there? the world's biggest marathon under way at this hour. a live report on security concerns there. back in this country, flooding through the nation's midsection. could it be getting worse in the week ahead? hello, everyone. it is high noon here in the west, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." three new and important headlines in the boston marathon investigation. we're expecting charges to be filed soon against suspect against dzhokhar tsarnaev.
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an exclusive against tamerlan. a source in russia tells nbc news russian intelligence reached out to the fbi last november about the 26-year-old. and crime scene units are back at the bomb site in boston right now. they're placing debris into garbage trucks. crews were seen sifting last night throughout that debris. let's go to pete williams. with a good afternoon to you, pete, let's talk first about the status of the charges in this case and what the likely charges will be. >> yes, i think the odds are pretty good that we'll see these charges in the next couple of hours. they're putting the final touches on them now. and we expect to learn a little more about what the fbi has assembled based on its investigation of the bombing. so perhaps there will be some new details that we'll get. in terms of the charges, i would think at the very least they'll charge him with the bombing, with a terrorism offense for that. and interestingly enough, under the federal statutes, which
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apply here, use of a weapon of mass destruction, which is the federal law version of what a bomb is, if death results, then that is a capital offense. the government could seek the death penalty. massachusetts is a state that does not have the death penalty. so the only death-eligible charge here would be the federal offense, even though four people were killed, the government alleges, the three victims of the. bog and the campus policeman. >> okay. in terms of the investigation, where does that stand now? what are the most prom neinent angles that are being pursued? >> these main questions are really the ones that have been true ever since the discovery of who these two people were. and the directions that they're headed in are really going to be the same here for weeks. so the investigation is not going to be, you know, taking sudden turns. the main questions are how and
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where did they assemble the components of the bomb. how did they buy them? where did they build them? were there any practices? secondly, what happened when the brother, tamerlan, the older brother who was shot to death thursday night, what happened when he went to russia last year for six months? was he in contact with any terror groups? did he get bomb training? were there any other people working with them? did they have other plots that they planned? and i must say that it does seem fairly likely that they did, based on the number of explosives that they had in their possession when the fbi and the police encountered them on thursday night. and, you know, put it all together, you get a question of whether they did this entirely on their own or whether they were a, directed, or b, influenced by outside organization. >> that is really my next question. what is the likelihood that the carnage that they reaped about the city of boston was able to
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be done just by the two of them, in terms of the types of bombs? were they sophisticated or were they simple? you hear all sorts of different conflicting reports on assessing that. or is that even figured out, you know, irrefutably yet? >> i don't think anyone has the answer to that, including fbi. was it possible that they did this entirely on their own? certainly. we've seen bombing case where is people did this entirely on their own. sadly, the instructions for making bombs like this are widely available. it does appear that they were, to use the term that everyone seems to use in cases like this, they had some sophistication, given that number one both of them went off. number two, they seem to be, at least our indication was that they were somehow remotely detonated, not just a simple fuse or timer. so that would imply a certain amount of skill. and, you know, practice. so i think one of the things they're trying to figure out is did they have some practice setting these out. did they go out into some remote
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area and make sure that their detonators would work? >> what about tamerlan, the deceased brother? the fbi knew him, or he was known to them, we should say. what are they saying about looking into him? >> well, what the fbi says is that in early 2011, it got a request from a foreign government, which we know to be russia, that said it was concerned that he was interested in radical jihadist propaganda. so the fbi looked into whether he was in any federal terrorism data bases. they looked into whether there was any information on what websites he was accessing, who he was in contact with. they looked into all this material, and ended up finally interviewing him and members of his family and concluded that there was nothing derogatory, and they then went back to this foreign government, russia, and said, you know, we got nothing here. can you be more specific? can you give us more information that we could use to go on, and the fbi says that the russian
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government never responded. >> okay, now that's after -- that's in 2011, right? >> correct. >> but he went from january to july of 2012, he was out of the country, we know that to be a fact. >> yes. >> he comes back, and there are reports that the fbi took another look at him late in 2012, whether that was at their own behest or the request of another government. >> the fbi says that isn't true. the fbi says it interviews him just once. and it's interesting that ann curry talked to the mother late weekend. friday, i believe. who basically corroborates what the fbi says. she says the fbi interviewed him about a year and a half ago. so that would have been before his trip to moscow. no one in the family that we know of has said that the fbi interviewed him when he got back in july of last year from his trip to russia. >> okay. interesting. in that interview, the mother
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used the word "controlled," that her son was being controlled by the fbi. i think it's a fairly okay assumption to say she may have mistaken that. english isn't her first language. maybe she meant observed. the fbi isn't in the business of controlling individuals. >> i think you're right about that. >> okay, thank you very much, pete. some new information. this is reaction from the republic of dagestan. it may provide some clues on how tamerlan tsarnaev spent his time during a six-month trip to the region in 2012. adrian long is joining me. what have you uncovered? >> reporter: hi, good day, alex. well, it's still pretty tough to retrace tamerlan's steps. what we do know so far was that he did appear to have visited a local mosque.
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it's basically a version of islam that's practiced in a very pure form that's very popular here in dagestan. we spoke to a couple of people outside this mosque about an hour and a half ago. one person said that he does remember seeing tamerlan, and when we asked him how he remembered, why did he remember, he said it was because tamerlan really stood out. he was a tall and very athletic looking man. said this young man. and because tamerlan is from the u.s. anybody from the u.s. would stand out in a place like the capital of dagestan. it's a very small city. the republic itself of dagestan the, you know, only about three million people. and, of course, they're mostly or predominantly muslim. so we have been able to pinpoint him at least in one place. we spoke to some neighbors and a distant relative on the mother's side. none of them said that they ever saw the son, but they do say
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that they find the whole thing unbelievable. and the reason they find it so unbelievable is because of the character of the father. their father has only been back about a year and a half, but he's made a very good impression in general, certainly amongst his neighbors who described him as somebody who was very caring and kind, looks after some of his neighbors. one woman in particular, a single mother who is struggling to make ends meet, unemployment is very, very high in this republic, by the way. she said that she was always available to help her with repairs for home or advice for that. people pointed out a sidewalk outside the apartment building, which he had paid for to be repaved, and in fact, he was responsible for repaving it himself. so they all are very shocked by this. back to you, alex. >> okay. so it sounds like a bit new reaction from that area in dagestan. may i just ask you, the people who have claimed to have seen him, or at least he was known to have been, was there a specific
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circle of people with whom tamerlan hung out or visited? has that been established or were they merely sightings because of the unique character and physical description that you started with at the beginning of your report? >> reporter: well, there has been one report, which we really haven't been able to verify yet, that he did maybe meet some people of questionable character. but in general, he actually hasn't been sighted very much in the area that we would have expected to see him. for instance, the apartment building where his father keeps a residence. it's possible that the family has several residences. the parents certainly aren't staying at the apartment building now. they've been shying away from all the media attention. we would have expected to have heard from people saying that they had seen tamerlan there, but they didn't see him on his visit last year, so that does remain a big question.
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>> okay, aid rdrienne long, tha you for the report. as soon as dzhokhar tsarnaev is medically available, he will be questioned by the federal government's elite high-value detainee interrogation group. so how do they get inside the mind of a terrorist? my next guest spent 30 years in counterterrorism and was the co-lead of the u.s.s. cole bombing investigation. joining me now in studio, robert mcfadden, former deputy assistant director for counterintelligence operations. let's go to what's happening inside that hospital room right now, this high-value detainee is being interviewed, if he can speak, which actually remains in question. what are the first things they need to find out. >> just going by my background and working some cases like this before, and with an acknowledgement that i'm going to have to come up with some different term that we remain in speculation territory. but in a case like this, first
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and foremost, is the medical question. he's got to be lucid, cleared by doctors, and then the interview will start. the very first thing, once a degree of rapport and accord is built with the young man will be any other plots. because that's absolutely the first and most important thing disrupting any further plot. then it gets to other devices, conspirators in the area. ruling out all the things that would have to do with safety and security. >> you talk about building a rapport. and that is what i find so fascinating in doing my research into your kind of work. you don't really go at someone like this with a hard stance. it's almost as if you try to assimilate yourself with them and their ideology. so you can relate to them, right? >> absolutely. in fact, in mentioning the high-value detainee interrogation group, i was part of the panel that made the
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recommendation to the white house. besides having wonderfully trained and experienced interrogators, there's a behavioral component that works along with the analyst, so there's a 360-degree approach in going after the best results with an interviewee. going in with as much information, as big a dossier as possible, that's the challenge because it's such a short period of time. as much information is possible. knowing about the background. if it was a foreign subject, say an arabic speaker, having native proefficiency in the lafis profish proefficiency in the language. >> you headed over into the region, a hot bed of terrorism when there were captured suspects. you spoke with them, you could speak in their language, you knew as much about the koran or
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certain verses that they were repeating as they did and were able to almost trip them up in a logical approach. and so then what is the reaction when people like that are faced with someone like you? >> well, first of all, someone like me, in having a degree of arabic and knowing about the culture, as a psychologist would say, some cognitive dissonance. it's just such a surprise. but as far as opening doors when it comes to, for example, their expectation of someone like me from federal law enforcement would be insulting the religion, their culture, their family, which is so big in those societies, in shame-based societies. but when someone like me and other interrogators do this from training, they show no, there's not going to be insults or denigration, but hey, we're two human beings. let's talk. and then work on the rapport. however, it doesn't always go as planned. >> no. in this case, of these two brothers, tamerlan, the deceased brother is alleged to have been much closer to the religion than
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his younger brother. so if you're trying to employ these kinds of intelligent tactics, can they work as well on someone who's maybe not as immersed in the ideology? >> yes, i've seen it many times. i should say had the privilege of working all these top cases with, besides me, the best interrogator in the world, holly sufan, former fbi agent. so it's not really a battle of wits when it comes to religious poemics, though. it's really first and foremost opening up the door of conversation so you get the indicators as to what makes that individual tick. he may be a lecturer type and want to lecture you about the evils of the united states. but when they talk, they give indications about what motivates them. they don't speak in a vacuum. so close listening is key. >> it has to be hard occasionally, that you hear something that you find morally
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reprehensib reprehensible. you have to hold back. >> yes, that's true. but empathy might -- besides confidence and tenaciousness, might be the single biggest attribute for an interrogator. >> very good to sit next to you here. thank you for your insights. some staggering efforts about the world's biggest marathon trying to prevent another attack. [ male announcer ] at his current pace, bob will retire when he's 153, which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪
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the boston bombings came up during chuck hagel's trip to israel. hagel is in tel aviv to talk about how to handle the threat from iran. when asked about whether dzhokhar tsarnaev could be treated as an enemy combatant and sent to guantanamo bay, here's the reaction. >> we just don't have the facts, and until we get the facts, then it will be the responsibility of
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law enforcement, doj, other institutions to make some determination as to how that individual should be treated, detained, charged, and all that goes with it. >> joining me now for more on the investigation is earl sothers. he is now the associate director of usc's homeland security center. thank you for joining me. i'm glad you're here because i want to look at the facts with you. in 2011, tamerlan tsarnaev gets investigated by the fbi after russian intelligence warns him that he's interested in radical jihadist propaganda. in 2012, he flies out of the u.s. under his own name, goes to russia, spends six months in dagestan, then returns to the u.s. again under his own name. how does that not raise a red
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flag? >> well, first of all, you can trust me that the united states and the fbi, when they were asked to participate in this investigation and interview this young man, certainly exhausted every lead that they had. there are certain thresholds that would have to have been crossed for him to have been deemed suspect or attached to some other organization or having been radicalized while he was abroad. the challenge we have with these home grown radical extremists is they don't raise red flags. something happened in the ten years he's been in the united states or his trip abroad provided this cognitive opening where he was susceptible. >> i've used the phrase hindsight is 20/20, but we're talking about otherwise normal behavior.
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>> we have to determine whether -- some of the things that they did, at least in some of the activities that were reported by friends and neighbors, they were very, very good at staying covert, and they picked an area they knew well. they were certainly home grown. they had lived in the area for ten years. >> if someone gets investigated by the fbi for radicalization or suspension of that, does their name enter some data base, stay on a bdatabase that would stir p some kind of an alert? if they traveled overseas? >> i can't speak to that. it would depend on how much is going on, whether they're part of an active case. all of this is very situational. the joint terrorism task forces are working. they would have had to do something to cross that threshold to raise the attention that would garner an investigation or a surveillance and other interviews. >> okay. what about the bombing? is this something that based on
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what you've seen in the past, is this something that a couple of guys, a couple of brothers would be capable of doing, or was it too sophisticated? i mean, they pulled this off. they had both bombs go off, in all likelihood, exactly as planned, and in all likelihood from some remote location. >> well, that's a very good question. i don't know how difficult it is to build a pressure cooker ied. i'm not convinced that they have acted alone. certainly they plotted this, although it wasn't very sophisticated, it was at least coordinated. again, as i mentioned, they have lived in the area for ten years. we're now going to be exploring all their social networking, looking at their websites, their e-mails, phone conversations, anybody they talked to for an extended period of time to find out if they weren't part of a bigger plot and resourced, planning mechanisms in place for them to do what they did. i'm not convinced that they've acted alone.
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>> i don't think anyone is quite yet. there's an investigation under way. thank you so much for your time. >> my pleasure. the case of the boston bomber, how close is it to the case of timothy mcveigh, the oklahoma city bomber? we'll talk to the man who prosecuted mcveigh. how would he prosecute this suspect? wait a sec! i found our colors. we've made a decision. great, let's go get you set up... you need brushes... you should check out our workshops... push your color boundaries while staying well within your budget walls. i want to paint something else. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. behr premium plus interior paint, only at the home depot and starting at $23.46 a gallon.
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areas dentists check most. my mouth feels healthier. it feels cleaner. i think my dentist is gonna see the difference. [ male announcer ] go pro with crest pro-health. i don't think i'll ever go back to another product. see. let's go now to the weather because the midwest is experiencing flooding. that includes the mighty mississippi, which rose nearly ten feet in just 36 hours. you're looking at images from indiana. dylan dreyer is here with the forecast. it's a mess. good afternoon now. >> it is such a mess. i have a friend in iowa who said it has been raining, snowing, or flooding what feels like every day for the past three weeks straight. it has been brutal in the midwest. we still have all of these flood warnings posted in wisconsin, illinois, into iowa, and even
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into missouri. we have some rivers that won't crest until tuesday. so most of the rivers, although they have crested, they're still flooding their banks but starting to recede. we are still going to have to keep an eye out for the pocket of major flooding across parts of missouri into early this week. the problem now is we have more rain. today it's pretty light in nature across minnesota, back through iowa. but this is going to strengthen into a bigger rain event for tuesday. and that's going to produce perhaps another two inches of rain across parts of the midwest. just as those rivers start to recede, they could end uprising again. on top of that, we have the snow melt that's going to occur across the dakotas and a lot of snow has to melt. the only saving grace is that it's not really all that warm. so it's a slow melt because temperatures are only going to be in the 30s and 40s, which is where they're at now, so crews can get a good handle on preparing some of the rivers and the banks for overflowing. now, we are going to see temperatures today in the northern plains only top out in
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the 30s and 40s. temperatures all the way down into texas will be about five to ten degrees below average for this time of year. the only real warm spot is going to be out in california, where temperatures will be about five to ten degrees above average. so today we are looking for dry conditions up and down the east coast. but again, some lighter showers in the midwest today. the heavier rain should hold off until tuesday. so unfortunately, flooding is going to be an issue most of this week as well. or okay, dylan dreyer, thank you very much for the heads-up on that front. some residents are returning to their homes in a texas town rocked bay fertilizer plant explosion. cars formed a long line outside west, texas, on saturday. residents' insurance agents were allowed into the area about a mile from the blast sight. a fi-- site. the fertilizer facility had 270 tons of amonium nitrate.
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five snowboarders are kill eed colorado. heavy snow created these bad conditions. forecasters call it the worst avalanche danger in decades. >> the newer snow is very unstable. so once it starts to go, it's going to go. >> and nationwide, experts say 4 people have d -- 24 people have died just this season. new information on the bombing suspect. lful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.
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suspect. but there isn't any basis for a -- for concern about another imminent threat. >> we have new video of the confrontation leading to the capture of the boston marathon bombing suspect. massachusetts state police released this infrared aerial video taken friday night in watertown. the images reveal dzhokhar tsarnaev hiding inside that boat inside the home. a mechanical arm is used to pull away the boat's plastic cover. then you saw that explosion. that is a flash grenade, which was seen going off. let's go to boston and nbc's luke russert. with a good sunday to you, i know you've joined some new information about dzhokhar tsarnaev's injuries. what do you know? >> reporter: an interesting development coming out of israel, officials say we could possibly see charges coming today. but due to injuries sustained,
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he has a throat injury which renders him unable to communicate presently. so they informed us that they don't believe he can speak very well, if not at all. and they're trying to reha bill tate h -- rehabilitate him to the point where he can speak about what he did or was alleged to do and the reasoning behind his brother and him exchanging a firefight with the police. it's an interesting development, a throat injury. it does not render him completely unable to communicate. there is an idea perhaps that when he gets more healthy, he might be able to type or write the answers to questions. >> i'm curious, though, we talked about these first few hours, maybe up to two days, 48 hours in which this high level group of interrogators can get information from him. but that's before he gets the miranda rights. the fact that he can't speak right now, does that push back
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that window of time because they're not getting anything from him? >> that's a good question that i won't speculate on without a legal background. i'll leave that one up to the master pete williams. but i can imagine there's got to be some sort of gray area there that some lawyer could look at. on that point, though, i think it's interesting, where we've gone now from, alex, is we've gone from this, all right, what exactly happened, to these real sort of questions surrounding the national security of this country, and how exactly these two individuals were able to go forward with what they ultimately accomplished. so this morning, sort of around that point, talking to folks related to the house homeland security committee, they say they really want to sort of get this investigation rolling on why these two individuals seem to have slipped through the u.s. intelligence community, especially after that information reported yesterday that the russians were concerned about the older brother. >> yeah, which pretty much
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guarantees some future congressional investigations. okay, luke russert, as always, many thanks. >> take care, alex. with the prime suspect still in serious condition, there's new political reaction about whether he should be treated as an enemy of the state. >> this man, in my view, should be designated as potential enemy combatant and we should be allowed to question him for intelligence gathering purposes to find out about future attacks and terrorist organizations that may exist that he has knowledge of, and that evidence cannot be used against him in trial. that evidence is used to protect us as a nation. >> let's go now to nbc news white house correspondent peter alexander. with a hello to you, peter, this has certainly been a hot button topic on the talk shows. so let's get to what the other side is saying and where is the white house position on this? >> well, the white house is certainly -- specifically, the administration, has a policy position on this, which is that he will not be treated as an enemy combatant.
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they couldn't do that to an american citizen. i think it's the -- make sure i get it right, the national defense authorization act of 2012 that says a sudden can't be tried as an enemy combatant unless there are tangible links that connect them to enemy forces among them, al qaeda at this time. there is no evidence of that. the people who as you have heard just moments before say he should be at least at this time treated like an enemy combatant are those republicans, among them john mccain and lindsey graham. but there's others, they say basically he should be treated as an enemy combatant for now and then handed over to civilian authorities. the information we're learning about his inability to communicate right now throws a wrench into a lot of that. but on the other side, we heard today from the chairman of the intelligence committee of the house, mike rogers, and here is his perspective on why he should not be treated like an enemy combatant. >> he's a citizen of the united states. i think that brings all of the protections of the u.s. constitution.
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under the public safety exception, however, i do believe that the fbi has a period of time to try to determine what threats are there today. we don't know if there's other devices. we don't know if there's other people. i think mirandizing him up front would be a horrible idea. >> so there are really a series of questions there. first, should he be treated as a criminal -- excuse me, as a -- i want to make sure i get it right, as an enemy combatant. that question we know the answer to at this point. the administration says no. should he be treated as a standard criminal defendant? that's the second question. that's issue of the miranda rights. to give you a better understanding on that, that's whether or not they should invoke this public safety exception that they are in the process of doing. but it doesn't help you very much if he can't communicate. while we'll make sure that this doesn't change the circumstances, it is expected that he would be mirandized as early as tomorrow. >> and then that would go into civilian court. okay. peter alexander at the white house. thank you very much for ironing all that out for us.
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the legal questions over whether dzhokhar tsarnaev be tried as an enemy combatant, we'll take it further after the break. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need.
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this weekend marks 18 years since a truck bomb drove into a oklahoma city federal building. with a welcome to you, scott, i'm glad to speak with you. i want to talk to you about similarities that you see between boston bombings and the one in oklahoma city. are there any? >> well, there are some. it's hard to tell, because we're at a point where we don't know that much. but it seems like what we certainly have is two bombs that are very unsophisticated. there's nothing in the bomb that indicates that it wasn't home grown. we've got at least one naturalized citizen. and we also have the leader who
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is a loaner. tim mcveigh was a loaner and tamerlan appears to have been a loaner. the difference that i see is that the person that we're going to be dealing with in trial, dzhokhar, may be very different than terry nichols, the number two in the oklahoma city case. >> what about -- let's face it, 18 years ago, that was pre-9/11, so would mcveigh have been tried today as an enemy combatant because he had a military background. does that mean anything? >> no. he would definitely not have been tried as an enemy combatant. to be tried as an enemy combatant, you have to be part of a -- or associated with a foreign force. not necessarily a state, but a foreign force like al qaeda. mcveigh definitely was not. he was super charged politically. we don't know whether tamerlan was. but it seems like dzhokhar was not, although we don't know for sure. >> okay, but you've heard some gop elected officials, they would like to see tsarnaev tried
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as one. so your thoughts on that? >> i don't think that that's going to happen. the obama administration has been clear, they're distancing themselves from that concept. you've got an american citizen. we don't have dzhokhar going abroad in training. his brother apparently did. but dzhokhar didn't. and dzhokhar is going to be tried as an individual on his own right. so i think the chances of this ending up as an enemy combatant are very small. >> but you've heard that because of high security concerns they would like to question him for a period of time, albeit briefly, before mirandizing him and reading him his rights. how long can they do that? how far can they go with those questions? >> well, that's a very good question. because the longer we go, the less likely there is that there's a public security issue here. one thing that the defense will certainly raise is the remarks of the police chief of watertown in which he said these are the only two guys, we're done.
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now the argument from the government will be well, he wasn't informed. but, you know, that's going to be played out pretty significantly by the defense. >> scott, do you have any knowledge about the fact that -- i brought this up with one of our correspondents, luke russert. i said look, they want to be able to speak with him. but that would happen immediately. the fact is we believe him not to be able to communicate because of his injuries right now. does that push back the timeframe that they could extract information without having a lawyer present, without having him go through the typical civilian court rules? >> that's a very interesting question. because under the law, they have to -- he has to have an initial appearance within 72 hours. at that initial appearance, he will have a lawyer. so that's not an arraignment, but it's an initial appearance. it's going to be difficult. they're going to get squeezed as to whether or not they can get this in here without him already
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having a lawyer . also, whether they can question him is not based on whether he can speak or not. they can certainly question him and have him answer by writing, for example. but really, one of the major issues is what's the physical state of this man? we just don't know. >> yeah. and i should say that we're getting from the federal public defender's office there in boston that they will indeed be representing dzhokhar tsarnaev in court. what do you expect him to be charged with? >> certainly he'll be charged with conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction. the reason i say conspiracy is because i question how much information they've got about what he did personally right now. it certainly seems like they have information that he did this with his brother. i would bet that the first charge, and maybe the only charge right now, would be conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction. >> okay.
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it's probable that his older deceased brother tamerlan was the mastermind of this entire thing. if it turns out that way, does that have any impact in court? >> of course. you know, the thing that you hearken back to is the d.c. shooters. the younger one was sort of a follower, apparently. and here, that certainly seems to be the case. everything we hear about the personality of dzhokhar makes it seem like he was very different from his brother and following his older brother. older brother having a very big impression on him. the fact that he went and partied with his college roommates after this just shows a level of immaturity and lack of commitment. we'd have a know a lot more, obviously. we're reading tea leaves. but i think that's a very interesting difference between this case and some of the others. in the oklahoma city case, terry
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nichols was very committed to the political act that they ultimately did take against the building and that was in challenge to what happened at waco. but they both believed it strongly. >> how long do you think until we hear charges? we hear it could come today. this timeframe. the ability to get information from him, do an investigation. is it likely those charges could come today, or will it be a while? >> the charges will come soon. but as i say, it will be an initial charge through what's called a criminal complaint. after that, there will be an inindictment. but they could put off that indictment for a while, because they're going to want to use the federal grand jury to investigate this. and obviously one of the major elements here is what else is involved here. like we did with mcveigh, one of the things that they'll be very interested in and focused heavily on was was there a conspiracy. and the second thing is where
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are we with respect to his activities abroad. this would be the first chechen attack in the united states. is this based on chechen nationalist views? probably not. is it based on islamic views, jihadist views? it may well be, but we don't know that. those are the two things that i think they're going to spend a lot of time on. >> all right. we spent a lot of time with you and i'm glad for that. thanks so much. >> thanks, alex. >> the difficulty of keeping huge events like the boston marathon safe. an expert on big event like the super bowl or world series weighs in next. begins with arth. and a choice. take up to 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. all aboard. ♪
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tens of thousands of runners who pounded the pavement today at the london marathon have the city of boston on their minds. nbc's duncan golestani is joining us with details of their show "solidarity." in particular, duncan, the security that was heaped upon london, remarkable number of security cameras out there along the route. >> yeah. well, you know, they say that london is one of the most
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watched over cities in the world. we have hundreds of thousands of surveillance security cameras. that's not just particular to the london marathon. that's all the time. because, you know, unfortunately london has a history of terrorist attacks from the ira in the 1970s, '80s, '90s, going back to the 2005 subway attacks when 52 people were killed in al qaeda-linked attacks. this week we've seen some particular security increases since the boston attacks. 40% more officers along the course. that's around 700 officers. more sniffer dogs out checking bags. and also more security around competitors' bags. they were moved from one position to another by truck. but, you know, london's police say that wasn't because there was any increase in threat level or any link to boston. they are calling it reassurance policing. that is making sure that the spectators and the competitors feel comfortable and secure, and i have to say from being out
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there today, it worked. it was a good day, alex. >> that's good to hear. without incident is what we like to hear in this case. duncan golestani, thank you. right now, crime scene units are back on boylston street in boston where they're gathering all the debris and trash as they sift through evidence. this as mourners gather to pay tribute to those killed and injured in the attack, which is raising questions about the future security of such mass gatherings. >> over the last decade, we've been remarkably lucky. and i don't understand and i don't think anybody really understands why this hasn't happened many, many times over the course of the last decade. because it's so easy for these people to do it. >> here to talk with me more about risk management and security, can you answer that question that was raised there? why is it this has not happened more frequently? >> well, i think it's a combination. we have been lucky. in october of 2005, there was a young man in oklahoma who but
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found with a bomb strapped to him that detonated early, prematurely, about 200 yards from a stadium where there were 85,000 spectators. had it not detonated prematurely, we would be in a different situation. since 9/11, there has been a continuum of failed and contained attempts. we've been quite fortunate. boston, as horrific as it was for the psychological and physical damage, it will force us to really look at these issues more closely and highway we contain these events. there are two types of sporting events, those contained in a stadium where you can monitor people's access. and then there are the open events like the marathon and the olympics. the key to the open events is resill yanienc resilience. london overlapped their evacuation roots with access to olympic sites. that's the key is how do we create resilience in the
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infrastructure. >> is there a lesson to come out of that that you say focusing on this is what we should do going forward? >> well, i think really boston, for what it was, we were so fortunate with the access to the hospitals, some of the best hospitals in the world. the fact that there were so many first responders right there. i think that's why you're going to see increased police presence. i know one of the questions that's coming up today is do we need more security cameras. it's actually an issue that came out of newtown as well. do we put security cameras in schools. i think security cameras are proving to have a role, particularly in those open events. and what we're seeing is how do we -- and when something like this happens, how do we ensure that we contain it? the way to contain it is by first responder presence and by as much visibility into certain parts of these events as possible. >> yeah. here's something that's extraordinary. it really falls on all of our shoulders, because we've learned that one of the victims who lost his legs to the bomb blast, he was key in identifying at least one of the two suspects. are we now in a position where
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we have to see something, say something? that's not only the new norm, but it's really essential for every american? >> yes. and as you know, it's what we've been saying for a long time. but when something like this happens, we really realize that it's all the more important and that you know, in that waiver of do i say something or not, it's certainly the right thing to do to err on the side of caution. we just need to be aware. it's not about living in a state of paranoia, but it's about living in a state of awareness and that's what we're asking society and everybody to do at this point. >> awareness is our new reality. thank you so much. >> thanks very much, alex. >> are there any other suspects in the boston bombing case? plus, the charges expected any time now. [ phil ] when you have joint pain and stiffness...
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[ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet? told you i'd get half. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. at this hour, new haunting questions on the boston bombings, and russia's warnings to the fbi. new information today on why that surviving boston bombing suspect has yet to speak to
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authorities. plus, it was the final showdown to nab suspect number two, the tail of the ta tale of the tape is coming to light. just past 1:00 p.m. here in the east. let's get to what is happening as we have three new important headlines to share this hour in the boston marathon bombing investigation. we are expecting charges to be filed soon against suspect dzhokhar tsarnaev, who remains in serious condition at a boston hospital. exclusive new information about tsarnaev's older brother tamerlan, who was killed in a gun battle with police. a source in russia tells nbc news that russian intelligence reached out to the fbi last november about the 26-year-old. meantime, crime scene units are back at the bomb site in boston right now. they're placing debris into garbage trucks. crews were seen sifting through all that debris last night. also new today, the boston community has set up a memorial near the finish line near the boston marathon and many have left flowers and photos, cards, and candles. so for more on the
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investigation, i'm joined by michael. first things first with regard to when some charges will be filed against tsarnaev and the things he'll be charged with. do you have any timeline for that? >> well, very good question, alex. i've been told this morning that we could expect charges possibly as early as noon. obviously that's come and gone. my latest information is that they are hoping to file the charges today. not definite that they will. there's further work, i'm told, that needs to be done relating to the investigation before they file this. this has been a moving target. we had been told yesterday that the charges might be coming yesterday afternoon, and then we had been told last night they might be coming. so at this point, i want to be a little cautious about predicting when we will see these criminal charges. i'm confident we will.
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but whether it's going to be today or not, i'm not totally sure. now, look, when we get those charges, i expect we will learn a lot more about the bombing and the bombers. and what evidence the government has, particularly relating to how the bomb was made, where the bomb parts was purchased, how the government made the identification, how it matched up the video with the actions of these suspects. so at this point, we're a bit on hold on that front. >> understandably so. what about the fbi? they spoke with, had some sort of contact with tamerlan, the deceased brother. what do we know about that? >> well, look, here's what we know. that in 2011, the russian fsb, their intelligence service reported to the fbi that it had -- wanted the fbi to
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investigate tamerlan tsarnaev, the older brother, for -- as a follower of radical islam. and the fbi interviewed tsarnaev, contacted an inquiry, conducted by the joint terrorism task force in boston, talked to family members, and concluded that there was no evidence of criminal activity, no evidence of any ties to identifiable terrorist groups, and there the matter sort of lay. and then we know in january of 2012, tsarnaev goes to russia for six months. he visits chechnya, where his family was originally from. he visits other areas in value asia where we know there's extremist activity. what exactly he did there, we don't know.
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the fbi and sources so far in the u.s. government have been a bit -- say they didn't get a lot of detail from the russian fsb about what it is that the russians thought was suspicious about tsarnaev. so that's clearly a big question here. and then also, a very big question is what -- who did he meet with while he was in chechnya? were there radical elements, radical jihadi figures that he met with and communicated with. because we do know that as soon as he comes back from russia, he creates that youtube account that's filled with these jihadi postings and videos. so there does seem to be a a connection there. >> yeah, a lot of dots to be connected right now. really all over the map on that. okay, thank you so much.
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there's new tense political debate today on whether or not that bombing suspect should remain protected under the constitution or treated as an enemy of the state. >> i do not believe under the military commission law that he is eligible for that. it would be unconstitutional to do that. >> let's go back to peter alexander. can you clarify the white house position on this and what republican lawmakers are saying? because they don't seem to be on the same page there. >> yeah, there is a lot of division within this community here at the administration and from republican lawmakers. but even among the republican lawmaker community, there's some disagreement on how they view the proper way to handle this. the administration clearly has made a policy decision that this suspect is going to be treated not as an enemy combatant but as a criminal defendant. some of the criticism is being let by lindsey graham of south
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carolina and john mccain. here was senator graham just a short time ago this morning. >> this man in my view should be designated as a potential enemy combatant and we should be allowed to question him for intelligence gathering purposes to find out about future attacks and terrorist organizations that may exist that he has knowledge of, and that evidence cannot be used against him in trial. that evidence is used to protect us as a nation. >> but a suspect like this one in a case like this can't be tried in a military tribunal because of what's called the national defense authorization act of 2012, which basically says if you're an american citizen, to be tried as an enemy combatant, there has to at least be some tangible links that connect you to enemy forces. among them, al qaeda. the next question, though, is if he should be treated as a standard criminal defendant, or if some of the rights should be different given the accusations of terror against this man,
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dzhokhar tsarnaev. and that relates to in miranda question that you've been talking about today. we're trying to get a better understanding of how it's impacted by what we're learning, which is the fact that he can't communicate right now because of injuries to his throat. and at this point, it's really unclear exactly what impact that hasmz it appears that after he is first able to communicate, at least the justice department would argue, they can speak to him before giving him his miranda rights. >> oh, peter alexander, thank you for clearing that up from there. appreciate it. chuck hagel is addressing concerns during his first trip to israel. top questions on the political radar concern whether the two suspects in the attacks, especially the older brother tamerlan, were inspired by militant groups overseas. secretary hagel took a cautious approach, citing the need for further intel on the suspects. >> all of the facts are not in. all of the dynamics, the intelligence is not complete.
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and until we know that, until we get more pieces, we won't be able to answer some of those questions. >> meanwhile, plans to interrogate tsarnaev without reading him the miranda rights is raising concerns in the legal circles. both the aclu and the massachusetts public defenders say the public exception rule doesn't apply because they claim there is no longer a threat. the public defenders office says it will represent him and it will work to have tsarnaev mirandized. as for the suspect's dead older brother tamerlan, his conduct before the attacks is raising red flags in the intelligence community after making at least one trip to russia, the most recent at the beginning of 2012 for six months, authorities say he set up a youtube account full of islamic postings and even images of bombs blowing up in high-rise buildings. russian investigators now claim he was on their radar. nbc news terrorism analyst evan coleman is joining me in studio. i want to thank you for being here. let's talk about radicalization,
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because we heard from former white house counterterrorism expert richard clark this morning. let's listen to what he had to say. >> how do you tell when someone gets radicalized? they're normal, they're happy kids in cambridge, then something happens. a switch is flipped. how can the fbi, how can homeland security notice when that happens? what i want to know is what did the russians do when he went back to russia? they had already said they were interested in him. then he goes back to russia and spends over six months there. what did they do? did they follow him around? that's a question we need an answer to. >> so what are the answers to these questions? we are not a police state, and yet this was someone around whom there were red flags. >> yeah, and look. there certainly was information provided by russian security service to the fbi, but we have to put that into context. the russian fsb and other agencies are not always working in our best interest and we don't always share the exact
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same perspective that they have on rebels based in chechnya. they consider all rebels as terrorists. the u.s. government doesn't necessarily see things that way. so when we get a piece of information like that, it's sometimes difficult to sort out what is this. and there are a lot of people out there with radical videos on their youtube profiles. most of these people will probably never kill someone. they will probably never carry out an act of violence. i think we'll have to dig a little deeper to see exactly who he was in contact with. >> most people have not had the russian government reach out to the united states fbi and say hey, could you check this guy out. so if you look at what was posted on his youtube account, it is disturbing on a very basic level. >> it is. >> so how should we have reacted in the wake of that? >> my sense is that there's something more to that. i don't believe the russians were just interested in him on the basis of a youtube profile. so far we've seen already from the mainstream caucasus, we
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didn't have anything to do with this. we're not at war with the united states. so we really have to balance this carefully. the russians may have pursued this guy because he was interested in chechen militancy. but that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the link here to what happened later in boston. there are folks that get radicalized overseas and they still carry out attacks lone wolf style when they get back to their country of origin. it doesn't necessarily mean that there's a link to something overseas. it has to be pursued. we have to find out what exactly the basis of their concern was. was it simply that he was interested in chechnya or was he in touch with an instructor, a trainer, somebody that represents an organization. so far none of the traditional organizations we've seen in this region have claimed credit. they distanced themselves from this individual. >> so far no one has come forward and said if he was an iffy, suspicious character. the kinds of attacks that he carried out, both of these brothers but tamerlan in
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particular, given that he was overseas, it's almost as if he had a split personality. he was just fine, relatively normal. you know, gentle disposition, allegedly. i mean, he was a boxing champion. >> something changed his perspective towards the united states. if you look at the interviews that le dhe did between 2004 an 2010, he went from saying the usa is a great place, there are jobs here for people, to all of a sudden saying i don't have any american friends, i don't understand these people. something between that time period, something changed his perspective about living here in the united states and about his relationship with other americans. it's hard to believe that's purely something that happened when he was in russia. i think it's logical to assume the lad callization process probably began before he ever left for russia. maybe it reached a peak at a certain point. if you look at his comments before he ever left for russia, they were already indicating his frustration with living in the
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united states. >> i want to bring up something that richard engel and i spoke about yesterday, and that was the chatter that was on terrorist websites. talk about what you have seen. >> yeah, we've seen a ton of comments being posted on top al qaeda forms. there was something like 25 separate discussion threads started on al qaeda's main discussion forums within 12 hours of this incident happening. but the people that are chatting on there, they're not saying this guy was connected to al qaeda. they're not saying this guy was part of the chechen -- they're basing what they're saying off of media reporting. but these are some pretty well-informed individuals. >> i should say these are guys -- some of them say they behaved poorly at the end. that once their pictures were put out there, that a true jihadist would never have behaved almost in a knee jerk reaction. >> and it's a reasonable question. if someone is given operational training and is carefully schooled in how to carry out an attack. why would they be marching
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around in front of television cameras with the hat on backwards and no sunglasses on revealing the face open. that's terrible operational security. that really doesn't show a great deal of thought, at least on behalf of one of the suspects. and i think that also goes into the calculus of whether or not there was an organization behind this, or whether or not these guys were self-radicalized, self-starters. >> evan coleman, as always, many thanks. >> thank you. >> worries about terrorism. how did americans view terrorism as of the latest attack? the results next.
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before last week's bombings in boston, americans did not seem too concerned about terrorism. you might think that after a gallup poll earlier this month in which it asked people what they thought was the most important problem facing this country today. economy, unemployment, and
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dissatisfaction with government were the most pressing issues. some other of the 16 problems people mentioned, 3% said look of money, 2% saying lack of respect for each other. of the 1,000 people asked, not a single mention of terrorism. still on terrorism, the fbi has reportedly reopened its files on a trip one of the suspected bombers made to dagestan. but some people are saying they should have had him under surveillance since he returned. joining me now, former republican texas senator and cnbc contributor kay bailey hutchison. and welcome to you. i'm glad to have you here to talk about this. because i know you are aware of the fbi facing some criticism for its investigation into tamerlan tsarnaev. is it too much to expect the fbi to follow up on these individual cases, particularly those that they've looked at and deemed not to have potential terrorism relevance? >> well, i think that it's very hard to criticize the fbi right now because i think they have
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led an incredible investigation in boston. and really, i was surprised that they could catch these people as early as they did. i just have to hand it to them. obviously we don't know how many of the kinds of reports that we're now told were given on these two brothers, especially the one who's dead. we don't know thousand fbi is putting that into a grid. so i can't say anything critical about them right now, because i think that it's a huge relief that so far these two are gone. but if they are connected to other terrorist organization, and if they're helping to foment that, then i think we need to be very vigilant. >> all right. if he had been flagged by federal authorities, what kind of effect would that have had on his permanent residency? he's also coming in out of a
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region like dagestan after being interviewed by the fbi. is that enough to trigger an independent investigation by immigration officials? >> well, alex, i think you're raising a very good point, and since immigration reform is now front and center for our congress and the president to handle, i think we need to be looking at the criteria for people that we allow to become permanent residents and legal immigrants in this country. and i think background is very important, and so i think that is a point that fortunately we are in the midst of having the opportunity to address. >> what about what's coming down from some of your former colleagues in congress who are saying that they want their surviving brother dzhokhar to be designated an enemy combatant and tried in military court. what are your thoughts on that? do you agree? >> i don't hear them saying they want him to be tried in military court, but i do hear them saying
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that he should be treated as an enemy combatant, and i think that -- i agree with them in that if he can be tied under the law that we have to terrorist or subversive organizations that would mean to do harm to americans and they would qualify, i think that they should be tried as enemy combatants. i think they can still be tried in our courts, but i think they are treated differently and i think right now, we need to find out what he will tell us about other plots, other organizations that might be planning or possibly want to do harm to innocent americans as we saw at the boston marathon. >> so do you then not believe that these two were acting alone? do you think they may have been in concert with organizations, other groups to some degree? >> oh, i think they were clearly in contact with groups because of what they have said on their
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social media. and we don't know, and i'm not saying that there is an absolute connection because we don't know the information, but i certainly think that we should be leaning on the side of prosecuting these people as enemy combatants that have killed innocent people with no causal connection to them. i think we should be leaning on that side rather than what i think is appearing to happen is that the prosecutors are kind of saying no, we're going the route of giving him his miranda rights. i think that is not a good thing to be saying right now, or indicating right now. we need to know what this young man knows that could help us protect american lives right now. >> do you believe that this case will have any bearing on the progress that we seem to be making in washington on immigration reform? >> i don't think that it will
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have an implication for the processes for immigration reform and having the security for the people who come in to our country, and then treating those, for instance, young children who come in that would have been dream act or achieve act recipients. no. but what kind of people we do allow to have permanent residency, i think we have gotten the warning flag, and i think that that certainly can be added to an overall immigration reform, that we want the people who come in here not to be carrying the baggage of wanting to harm innocent americans because of some skewed position on what we are and who we are and the freedom that we love. >> kay bailey hutchison, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. he was running the boston marathon and now this pulitzer
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prize winner is digging into the past of the tsarnaev brothers and you're going to want to hear what he's found in just a moment. copd makes it hard to breathe... but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announcer ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers
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and starting at $23.46 a gallon. three days after the deadly explosion in west, texas, some residents are returning home. for many, it's still too unsafe to return home. charles, what can you tell us first about these home comings? >> these homes were not structurally damaged. they may have had some broken windows and splintered wood, things like that, but nothing major. the people who live close toast the blast site, they're going to have the wait a little bit longer before they can check on their property. some of their property has been obliterated by the blast. but the mayor wants to get people in there to check the
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damage. but it's not safe enough. they want to make sure the natural gas lines have been sealed. they're working hard to get the lines back up. just a few hours ago, the assistant state fire marshall gave a briefing to update the reporters and the town on what they have learned. he says they have located the center of the explosion. that's important because they can now reconstruct what was around the center of the explosion to determine perhaps what triggered it, and more importantly, what triggered the fire that caused the explosion. he said it will take months to complete this investigation. there's also a memorial service being plan fld tned in the city waco at 3:00 p.m. >> thank you very much for that round-up. it is a story no pulitzer prize winning journalist likes to chase down, but it found him while he ran the boston marathon and he joins me next.
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welcome back. we are expecting charges filed soon against suspect dzhokhar tsarnaev gentleman in the boston marathon bombings. let's g to pete williams for more on this. anything on the status on this, timing, or what will be charged? >> i think the goal is to get the charges out today, but we can't completely rule out that it might not happen today. we thought we might get them yesterday, too. it's a matter of polishing the language, double checking it with all the authorities, and trying to make it as up to date as possible. they're getting kind of new investigative details into the criminal complaint is my understanding. we may or may not get it today. i don't think they know for sure at this point. >> what about the investigation, from what you know of it, pete, is it only focusing on the two brothers at this point? >> well, i think yes, but of
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course, they are very interested in talking to whoever they have been in touch with. i think the best way to put it is they've found no evidence that anyone else was cooperating with them or in any way involved in the boston marathon bombing. they're certainly exploiting all their e-mails, all of their cell phone calls, and the process of all of that has not come up with any associates or people that have thought to have conspired with them. >> we've been talking about this period of time under which these high security interrogators could speak with the suspect without his being mirandized. apparently he can't communicate very well, at least verbally at this point. does that mean that this timeline gets pushed back, or does it have to close up, this window of opportunity, within like 48-plus hours? >> well, i think that's actually a very good question. and i think it's fair to say the law isn't completely clear on this. let's us be clear on what we're
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talking about here. we're talking about the miranda warning. you have a right to remain silent. anything you say can be used against you. you have the right to a lawyer, all that stuff. what the united states government has decided to do is invoke an exception to that rule. which says that when there is a danger to public safety and you need to get answers quickly, you can get the answers without the miranda rights and still use that information in court. so when does the clock tick on that period of the public safety exception? the moment you make an arrest, the moment you begin an interrogation, what? i mean, i think the justice department will take the position that it begins the moment they begin talking to him. but i suppose his lawyers can certainly say that the time had elapsed so much since his arrest that it's hard to assert that exception. my guess is that there's no clear rule here in the federal government. this is kind of a legal rule that's developed from court
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cases. it's been extended to terrorism cases. and i think the justice department will take the view that they can question him for a while no matter when the questioning starts. >> okay. our justice correspondent pete williams, thank you for that. i'm going to pick up right now with this particular line of questioning, though, pete. i'm going to have joining me via skype with legal perspective the director of terrorism law at st. mary's university. jeff, the question i was just asking pete, do you know if the clock starts ticking on this period of time when they can actually begin communicating with the suspect or upon an arrest or capture? i mean, how does that work out? do you know? >> yeah, in the federal court system, we have a certain period of time before charges have to be made. when that stops is when the exception is recognized by the supreme court, so that's what they're doing. so i would anticipate that the charges will probably be out on
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monday. that's still well within a reasonable amount of time. >> okay. but the reason that they want to get at this young man, dzhokhar, without mirandizing him, is to get information that will help ensure the public safety. as more time passes and the public remains safe, there are no more incidents, any volatility, any bombs, any terrorism effects at all, does that then naturally shut down their ability to ask him questions because the public seems safe? >> it could, and that's a valid concern, but these were bombs that these people were dealing with. they had several bombs. there could be other people involved in the plot. we just don't know yet. there could be other bombs that are set. we don't know yet. so i think the government's got a reasonable argument to say that we need a little bit more time for this public safety exception, because certainly not going to determine that this guy is an unlawful enemy combatant and the president is not going to make that determination, which would give you unlimited time. >> so how do you think we should proceed in terms of the way he
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would be tried, as a civilian or as a military combatant? could he be tried as a military combatant when you look at all the rules? >> he couldn't be tried as a military combatant because he's a u.s. citizen, even though he's naturalized. the military commissions act of 2006 and 2009 exempt u.s. citizens that are enemy combatants. but he could be labeled as an unlawful enemy combatant if the president makes the determination that he's a member of al qaeda, the taliban. that has been picked up by our federal courts. however, i don't see that happening here, because as you recall, president obama refused to make that determination for the son-in-law of osama bin laden. trained in al qaeda camps. so if he didn't do it for those guysing he's not going to do it for this person. >> do you if i if we do not classify him as an enemy combatant, does that put us at all at a disadvantage in pursuing a conviction against him? >> no, it doesn't. in fact, our interrogation methods are reduced to basically
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may we talk to you, and if they say no, then we can't talk. no, it doesn't. i think that this guy obviously is infected with the virus of radical jihad, but he's not an enemy combatant. i think the proper process would be to try him in federal district court as we have tried dozens and dozens of other radical islamic extremists in the last ten years. >> okay. st. mary's university, thank you very much, jeff. >> thank you. what impact will the boston bombing have on the american psyche? that's ahead with the big three. olay ultra moisture body wash can with more moisturizers than seven bottles of the leading body wash. with ultra moisture your body wash is anything but basic soft, smooth skin with olay.
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by the armful? by the barrelful? the carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. my next guest was running in the boston marathon monday when those bombs went off. he immediately abandoned his role as a runner and asummed his day job as a reporter. one of the articles he has produced paint perhaps the most complete picture.
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joining me now is boston globe investigative reporter. you were eight blocks or so from the end of the race when the bombs went off, is that correct? >> that's correct. i was eight blocks away, maybe ten. but basically eight blocks away. i didn't know what was happening. i jumped on to commonwealth avenue from an underpass. i got to within about six blocks before the police started turning all the runners away. >> when did you figure out what had happened? >> well, i immediately went up to a police officer and i said i'm with "the boston globe," can you tell me what's going on? he was very forthright. he said there have been a couple of explosions. i asked him if there were any fatalities. he thought there were two. so i immediately started trying to borrow someone's cell phone to call my city desk. nobody's phone was working. so i made my way to a bar a couple blocks away, got in the bar and persuaded the management to let me use a phone and call the "globe" and went out and started doing interviews.
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>> yeah. your headline calls it two paths into infamy. just how different were these brothers? >> i think they were very, very different. dzhokhar, the younger brother, was incredibly well-adjusted. he was a very popular student. he had a lot of friends. played a lot of pickup basketball. he was an honor society student. seemed to be very, very well assimilated to the united states. as i say, a lot of friends, very popular. i think the other brother was a different story. the other brother was a clubhouse boxer. he's been described to me as someone who was disdainful, not very communicative with other boxers. this is a guy who's 26 years old, and perhaps is married, but definitely has at least a girlfriend and a small child who has never had a job that i know of. and they're now reporting, we did not pick up that he has any discernible income.
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also, i just have to wonder how happy an individual he might have been. we know that he did three semesters part-time at a community college, but that's it. i have to think this is a guy who when he looked into the future didn't see a lot of opportunities. the younger brother, on the other hand, completely different story. this is a kid who could have gone somewhere. >> you know, michael, you bring up the possibility of having a wife or a girlfriend, but being the father, and we've seen it reported many places that there was a 3-year-old daughter there. >> that's right. >> why is that so hard to nail down? do we know anything about these relationships? >> well, we don't know a whole lot. one reason it was hard to nail down is because all the government offices on friday were closed because boston was in shutdown mode. so it was impossible to obtain, say, for instance, a marriage certificate, which would normally very easy under normal circumstances. so just some of the documentation was impossible to get. so a lot of the information we have was gleaned through
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interviews with people who knew the brothers, knew the family. that's how we know about the child and that's how we know about the relationship with the woman, whom he apparently met outside a gym where he practiced boxing quite a bit. but again, i'm just struck by the differences in these two brothers, and the amount of opportunity that seemed to be on the horizon for the younger brother, and perhaps not so much opportunity on the horizon for the older brother, who in my opinion, never really became as assimilated as the younger brother. >> sounds like he was somewhat disenfranchised there. when you talk to people who knew both of them, does it seem like dzhokhar was influenced by his older brother tamerlan? did he have that kind of a role in his life? >> well, we arrive at that conclusion almost by process of elimination. it's difficult to see why a kid like dzhokhar, who is so well-adjusted, has had so much promise. it's difficult to see why he would become radicalized, except through a relationship with his brother.
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i'll say something else about this family. when i was talking to a cl classmate of the younger brother, who was also a neighbor, by the way, someone who went to high school with dzhokhar for four years and lived around the corner, considered him one of his best friends, played a lot of pickup basketball with him, i asked him if dzhokhar had ever been to his house and he said oh yes, many times. i said well, have you ever been to dzhokhar's house? he says no, never. i said did you ever meet his brother or sisters? he says never. did you ever meet his parents? he said i saw his father fixing cars in an alley where the father had his own car repair business. i just thought it was very significant that dzhokhar, who had all these friends, visited these friends, so apparently well adjusted, never had any of the friends over to his house. so that tells me that there was something going on in the home that he didn't particularly want to share. >> yeah, absolutely. boston globe investigative reporter michael rezendes. you and your colleagues have done a hell of a job this week. thank you so much for all of that and for being on the show. >> sure, thank you. the big three's take on the
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it is time for the big three and today's topics, homeland security and off the radar, my big three pampl. editor for "the boston globe," stephen myth, msnbc contributor, robert traynham, and georgetown university dean and msnbc contributor and democratic strategies jimmy williams. so, gentlemen, it's good to have all three of you here. beginning with you. the topic we begin with, homeland security. how do the boston marathon attacks change your post-9/11 perception of security in this country? >> i think what it demonstrates, alex, is that these soft targets continue to be there, and it really shows the difficulty in defending against attacks. when you think about this course, 26.2 miles, stretching from parts of greater boston directly in the urban heart of the city, and it just
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demonstrates how daunting a task it is to protect against attacks, and, really, the balancing test that has to go on in society about allowing access, the access we all want, but also striving to provide as much security as possible. >> yeah. robert, same to you. i mean, what's your sense of it? are you feeling less secure today? >> i don't know if i'm feeling less secure but i am feeling, there's no way we can be 100% -- safe if you will. feeling safe or secure. when you go a mall, a grocery store, a baseball stadium, you're vulnerable. on the amtrak train up to new york, you're vulnerable. that's the price we pay for freedom, unkorfortunately in th civilized society. >> you bring up a mall. independence mall, in the philadelphia area. here just today there was someone, a suspect. they had to shut down the mall for a while. talk about that specifically. jimmy, in this case, the police have to be correct 100% of the
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time. anyone who wants to do harm, only has to hit it once. >> well, you know, after 9/11 when i was a senate staffer, we were brought in and told that these sorts of things would begin to happen. at the starbucks, look for suspicious packages. look on the subway, et cetera, et cetera, and lo and behold, 11, 12, almost 13 years later, whatever the number is, it hasn't happened until now. federal, state and local level has done ex-zempxemptplary job g us safe. i don't feel let secure than i did tleep weeks ago or three years ago. i think our government is doing what it needs to do and i hope they continue to do it. >> okay. moving to our next topic.
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i want to look at the poll that was taken before the attack. americans didn't seem too concerned about terrorism. economy, unemployment, dissatisfaction with the government, those were the most pressing concerns there. of the 1,000 people asked not a single sense of terrorism being worried. about that. i mean, is it a good thing not to worry about terrorism, stephen? >> i think what we have to realize is that we can't allow our lives to be so heavily circumscribed by fear. it's just the same thing as every time we get into a car to go somewhere, any activity that could pose some risk, the potential for something horrible happening at any particular moment is really infanttesammly small. this episode, compared to other acts of terrorism is the fact that it happened in an area as a
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bostonian, i walk past this stretch where the bombing happened every day, leaving the gym at night, going to get something to eat. and so i think in that respect, it's easy to understand why it might refrain people's perspective on all this. >> yeah. robert, your reaction to the poll? taken before the attack. what's it tell you? >> that's right. i was going to ask a two-part question. one, when was the poll taken? before the attack, i suspect. second, we should probably ask that question today. especially given the fact that millions of americans across this country were glued to television sets, saying, when the manhunt was going on just outside of boston and watertown. i'm sure millions of americans, goodness, this could be happen in any town in america. ask that question today, a lot of people, majority, say, yes. maybe not number one, but a top five issue. >> 0% concern about terrorism is that a win for america?
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>> the answer is yes. until three months, back off the radar screen in public polling because the american people will feel safer. >> perfect. nice going. jimmy williams, robert traynham, stephen smith. that's it for this edition of "weekends with alex witt." see you with more news in one hour. businesses more than two billion dollars to grow jobs, cut middle class income taxes to the lowest rate in sixty years, and we're creating tax free zones for business startups. the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started. to grow or start your business visit thenewny.com
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